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 Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:07 pm

I respect you opinion but I disagree with fully. No matter how you put it, I will never believe Brock was the best choice cause really he is not. The fact that he is the one who has that honor to do it makes me fucking sick.

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:15 pm

Rather than the streak go out with a bang, it went out with a horrid whimper.

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:29 pm

I am not bothered the streak has ended, I’m bothered no one got a payoff from it. I’m bothered by the bout’s lackluster build and the fact the streak seemed like an afterthought. I’m bothered that Lesnar was blown up less than 10 minutes in and I’m bothered the bout was squeezed into the undercard and failed to engage the crowd. If you're going to end the streak, at least make it memorable. The execution & build to these storylines were shockingly poor this year.

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Honestly, I agree that it should have ended, and of the current roster, Brock was the best choice.  Pat put it best, whoever beats the streak has to live up to it, they were able to beat the Undertaker at WM, they're a big deal.  So whoever took the ball as a heel and rolled with it, would have to have longevity in some form, and there really aren't any wrestlers in the company other than Brock that could do it.  

The Shield?  No, none of those three are established enough, not even in a three on one handicap match, to earn that honor.  They're big and important now, but who knows if any of the three will truly be a long-term star for the company.  So it would be wasted. 

Bray Wyatt?  Same case as the Shield, he just got big very recently, and while he's got a lot of good momentum, with a solid place near the top of the roster, he's not guaranteed to stay there, not by a long shot.  How long he remains in the spotlight depends on how well his gimmick is continuously booked, and if he beat the streak, the pressure to push him would grow even more.  So no.

Cena? No, not a chance.  Cena gets enough boos from the crowds as it is without ending the streak.  WWE isn't going to add risk to their biggest commodity in recent years.  They're going to milk his run as long as they can until people legitimately stop paying to see him, to buy his shirts, to do anything.  It would have been a better match, he might have more right to it, but it would be a terrible choice for his career. 

Batista?  Hahaha, no.

So I really want to hear a good argument for someone better than Lesnar.  Part timer or not, he's an established monster heel.  No matter who he faces, he beats the shit out of them, win or loss.  That's his thing.  People expect his opponents to take a beating.  And now he just took the grand daddy of them all, ending the streak.  Only adding to his gimmick, his draw power.  So I agree with the choice.


Also, I want to piggy back off SP's statement about Taker growing boring at Mania.  I have to massively agree there.  Over the last 5-8 years, his matches at Mania were always predictable.  You expected him to win.  There was that back and forth, what if he doesn't win factor there at say around 22-25, but it's been dropping for years.  And they ran through every major star since Mania 20 they could think of.  HBK, HHH, Randy Orton, CM Punk, etc.  Who was going to stop him at this point.  Hell, when I watched his match on Sunday, I had a very meh mood towards it.  I knew they were going to kick out of the tombstone, the first couple of F-5s.  In my head I was simply thinking that Taker was going to win again, keep it going.  Then he lost.  That surprised me, it made me pay attention, it honestly made the night worth waking up in the middle of the night for me.  

So yeah, while it'll garner dislike for the first couple of years, in the long run, I think they made the right choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:04 pm

How is it not memorable? We're all talking about it.

The STREAK ending is what people remember and will remember, not the match ... if we remember the match then it's just a stain on Undertaker's career.

If they had made Brock-Taker the main event instead of putting it on the undercard, the entire WWE fan base, IWC and otherwise, would have rioted -- "You couldn't let Daniel Bryan be the main event, you took it away from him." Never would it have gotten off the ground.

And it did put someone over. It put Daniel Bryan over in a bigger way than WWE could have dreamed ... after the crowd was shocked and silenced, after they watched the streak end and Undertaker walk off into the sunset, Bryan brought it back to life. He showed WWE -- Vince, Hunter, the entire machine -- that he can be the guy precisely because he followed such a moment and took those 80,000-or-so people in the palm of his hand and made them rise rather to celebrate him rather than mourn the Taker, or the streak.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:09 pm

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. To me it was the dumbest and lamest way to end the streak. If Brock was the best they could come up with than it should have never ended.

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:19 pm

Please explain to me in more detail how The Undertaker losing the streak has anything to do with Daniel Bryan & his fans.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:25 pm

If anything it took away from Daniel Bryan's big win. WM 30 should have been Daniel Bryan's night, people should be talking about that. But you know what they are really talking about? How the fucking Streak ended in such a fucking stupid way. It's more about that than Daniel Bryan, so it did not add nothing to Daniel's big win.

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:30 pm

This is why the Streak SHOULDNT of ended. Lesnar is already an established guy in the business. Multiple time world champion, has beaten some of the biggest names in the company, past and present (Taker 3 times before Mania). Not to mention that Lesnar is a part time guy and really doesnt benefit anything from this other than a title run later on in the summer possibly when he comes back from his 5 month hiatus. If you pass the torch to someone, you do it with a younger guy, like Ambrose or Cesaro. One of those guys easily could use the rub more so than Lesnar ever could. Personally, im not upset that he lost. It was inevitable, but i didnt think it would be to Lesnar and IMO, i dont think that was the right decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Lol & it wouldn't surprise me if this was Lesnar's last match at WM too. Does nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:39 pm

Lesnar is under contract through Mania 31, so if he eventually left it would be after next years.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:48 pm

That's one year to get an investment. Is he doing the job for Cesaro at Summerslam? Hell no he want. WM 31, Who is he going to face? The Rock? Sting? Oh yeah cause if one of them defeat Brock it's going to matter a whole lot.

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:33 pm

One scenario could see him heading into Mania next year as champion, provided he's willing to work a lot of dates so close together.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:35 pm

Well WWE better be adding 3 more 0's to Brock's check then

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:02 pm

Do you guys think Undertaker is stupid or what? He hand-picked Lesnar. Obviously, he believes something good will come from this... Who would know better? Some internet fan or The fucking Undertaker?

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:05 pm

Yes, because we arent supposed to voice our opinion on whether or not this was the right decision  Neutral 
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:40 pm

Just because it's was his choice, doesn't automatically make it the right choice. Yeah he has earn the right to do whatever, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. We respect it, but we don't like it. Hell if Taker lets Hornswoggle be the one to the end does that automatically make it the best choice because he said so?

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:47 pm

I am certain that Undertaker signed off on the outcome before he agreed to do it, however, that doesn’t excuse the failed plan or execution. It also doesn’t make Brock Lesnar capturing the streak any more palatable. Sometimes Vince McMahon has to step in to save workers from themselves and if Undertaker wanted to give the streak to Lesnar, there were better ways to accomplish it.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:16 pm

Am_Dragon wrote:
I am certain that Undertaker signed off on the outcome before he agreed to do it, however, that doesn’t excuse the failed plan or execution. It also doesn’t make Brock Lesnar capturing the streak any more palatable. Sometimes Vince McMahon has to step in to save workers from themselves and if Undertaker wanted to give the streak to Lesnar, there were better ways to accomplish it.

Such nonsense. "I'm OK with the streak ending" ... as long as it ends in some undefinable certain way that it didn't or couldn't.

It was "failed plan or execution" = you're unhappy. Any different sort of buildup would have (a) been met with "meh, we know Taker's going to win," (b) been met with much more real and visceral backlash, or (c) ruined the surprise.

Absolutely ZERO people expected it. That's not failed plan. That's you not wanting it to end and grasping at straws to sound reasonable by saying "no, it's not what they did, it's how they did it" -- when in full and perfect fact it is what they did you are unhappy with.

"Anyone but Brock" ... but you'd be OK with HHH? Or retiring Shawn? Yeah, a lot of people probably would be OK with Shawn because he's popular, but putting it on someone who has ZERO payoff because he was leaving makes absolutely no sense. I'm willing to guess Brock will headline about six PPVs in the next two years, and he'll be an attraction at each one because he's not full time.

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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:22 pm

Don't care about the outcome & the reaction. The reaction was normal. It was the other things that surrounded the overall match that was meant by "failed execution." And I mentioned some of those in previous posts.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:35 pm

@Saintpat wrote:

"Anyone but Brock" ... but you'd be OK with HHH? Or retiring Shawn? Yeah, a lot of people probably would be OK with Shawn because he's popular, but putting it on someone who has ZERO payoff because he was leaving makes absolutely no sense. I'm willing to guess Brock will headline about six PPVs in the next two years, and he'll be an attraction at each one because he's not full time.

Yet he's under contract for one more, and the only way he'll main event that many shows is if he gets the WWE title. I'd be okay with someone who actually deserves it, not someone who's not going to be around until Summerslam at the least. Lesnar didnt need the rub from this, considering Undertaker never beat him in matches previously. It does not elevate him, it does not establish him as a main eventer. He already had those accomplishments BEFORE the Mania match. It would be like if Rock ended the streak, and then wasnt seen for a year and a half.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:40 pm

Jesus, how many times do I need to address the "Undertaker picked Lesnar" thing? I don't care AT ALL. Fact is, it happened and it shouldn't have. Lesnar was the WORST choice to end it. Not because there was no payoff (cause there wasn't) not because some young up-and-comer deserved it (cause debatable) not even because the match so shittily hyped and the match itself was shit too, but because Lesnar didn't deserve it.

We don't know WHY Taker did it. Maybe Taker gave it to him in hopes that it would cause Lesnar to work full time (which he's not), maybe Taker did it to get him to return in the first place? Who knows? It doesn't make any sort of a difference whatsoever. Brock is literally the LAST person who should've ended it. He did absolutely nothing to deserve it. No matter WHO ended it there would be positives and negatives to it, so it doesn't matter either way, but Brock didn't deserve to be the one who ended it. Not to mention he did it in such a shitty manner. You can argue all you want, but Brock winning it was the stupidest thing WWE could have done. Once again, as a Taker fan and as someone who really really loved the streak, I feel slapped in the face that LESNAR ended it.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:43 pm

I'll give it to Taker that he wanted Lesnar to be the one for 3 years and actually stuck to that notion. I would of preferred if the streak ended at Mania 14 against Kane or against Orton when he was calling himself the Legend Killer.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:45 pm

Another thing, LOL @ Taker losing making Bryan bigger. No, I'm sorry, but no. Go to any WM 30 Youtube video or WM 30 news article and look at the comments. All anyone is talking about is how "Undertaker lost, fuck this shit." "WWE is fucking dumb for making Taker lose." "21-1? RIP WWE." All anyone is talking about is the streak. Not about Daniel Bryan, not about Cena beating Bray Wyatt, not Cesaro winning the battle royal, but the streak. PLEASE don't act like Taker losing put anyone other than overrated Brock over.

Now, for the argument that "If not Brock then who?", simple: No one. If they REALLY didn't want to take the risk to get a big payoff out of someone like The Shield or Bray Wyatt, then simple, have no one end it. You don't get any payoff, but you also keep the streak intact. Taker could retire with it, as many of his fans wanted him to. Or hell, lose it to Kane. At least in storyline it makes some sort of sense. So yeah, if not Brock then who? No one, simple. If they really couldn't risk anyone but the most undeserving competitor, then just don't give it to him, simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Caleb's 39 Notes from Wrestlemania   Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:59 pm

^ I agree on the whole DB thing. Don't think it really helped with that. And also if anything, it suddenly made it painfully obvious that DB was going to win, if it wasn't already. So I feel like that's another thing that might've lessened the hype surrounding that moment a little.

#OriolesMagic wrote:
This is why the Streak SHOULDNT of ended. Lesnar is already an established guy in the business. Multiple time world champion, has beaten some of the biggest names in the company, past and present (Taker 3 times before Mania). Not to mention that Lesnar is a part time guy and really doesnt benefit anything from this other than a title run later on in the summer possibly when he comes back from his 5 month hiatus. If you pass the torch to someone, you do it with a younger guy, like Ambrose or Cesaro. One of those guys easily could use the rub more so than Lesnar ever could. Personally, im not upset that he lost. It was inevitable, but i didnt think it would be to Lesnar and IMO, i dont think that was the right decision.
The streak should not be used to push someone because that puts crazy expectations (therefore high risk on that guy's career and the prestige of the streak itself) and it's also disrespecting the streak. Think about it, 21-0 and then some rising star with little to his name beats Taker? And furthermore he's basically using the streak as like a stepping stone to build his own career? Like I said that'd be pretty likely to fail anyway because it's too much to live up to on a weekly basis.

Brock will make his big appearances, fuck shit up, and realistically portray an evil badass with tons of credibility for the rest of his career because he built that persona & aura years ago and the streak adds to it. It doesn't put Undertaker down at all, Brock Lesnar destroys everyone and Taker was at the end of his career.

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