Can we just agree that 90% of wrestling fans are morons and don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about? We just spout out what we hear from other people and sounds good to us.

I don't know why we can't complain about the product. Especially of your shilling out hard earned money for a promotion's pay per views. Luckily I only bought SummerSlam which was a real fun pay per view from WWE. And I think I also have the right to say Bound For Glory sucked dick. Of course someone who didn't shill 40 dollars (Maybe even watched it for free on YouTube ) might look back on my thoughts and say "Well it was a mediocre pay per view. It didn't suck donkey balls."

And like Chilly said this ins't at all exclusive to pro wrestling fans.

I think Razor's post is fueled by wrestling fans taking over The Royal Rumble and RAW.

Not only has the iwc always bitched at the product but they've always bitched at each other for thinking differently. Some things will never change.

Well going on forums would be really boring if we didn't  

^ Damn right. It's always amused me that people take this shit so seriously.

HHH 4 LIFE
(not a HUGE fan but the hate he gets is crazy/undeserved )

-----

You get a lot better judgment as you get older so the Attitude Era might not have been as great as I viewed it, but I LOVED it as a kid. Pretty damn sure kids of this era will look back and view this period of wrestling the same way I view the Attitude Era, so definitely agreed there. Also, it kinda has to do with people most likely liking the first stuff they see of a product more than anything else because the rest starts seeming stale/repetitive/predictable from what they've already seen. And as the years go on it gets tougher for the product to bring in more original ideas & storylines when they've already done so much... especially when there's no competition to motivate them, like the WWE's case.

I mean, that's why it's really tough to make a sequel of anything better than the original.


Only thing I can think of in retaliation to this argument is maybe the IWC back then didn't know how good they actually had it from an entertainment standpoint and it has just gotten worse and worse. But damn those comparisons are crazily similar so idk. It's true the IWC just like to bitch.

BurdurSmurf wrote:

it kinda has to do with people most likely liking the first stuff they see of a product more than anything else because the rest starts seeming stale/repetitive/predictable from what they've already seen.

Also I think that's basically why so many people loved the Attitude Era more than any other era, even if it wasn't the first period of wrestling they started to watch... it was different and went with so many new, and unique/controversial, ideas.

Dead wrote:

Also, i like how the part of the "IWC" that's always bitching are always the "indy fanboys". Did you ever stop to think that not every fucking person on the Internet actually watches the indy shows and they base their opinions on what they see on television? So im guessing all the people that were complaining about Austin and HHH back in the day were pro-indy too right? Because all the indy companies didnt pop up until 2002.

I wasn't referring specifically to indy fanboys, idiot. Once again, you miss the entire point of it. I was stating that the stereotypical "IWC" fan is an indy fanboy. I'm merely stating WHO I am referring to, because last time I mentioned the "IWC" I got a bitch thread made about me arguing that "the IWC should stop arguing itself, and we're all part of the IWC!" I don't care if it's indy fanboys, WWE fanboys, I'm referring to the STEREOTYPICAL IWC FAN. Which nowadays is generally an indy fanboy that worships Daniel Bryan. That isn't even remotely what this thread is about, so fuck outta here with that. This is referring to the bitching that the stereotypical IWC fan does, I don't care how you wanna label them, it should be evident which group I am referring to.

MooseNugget wrote:

I don't know why we can't complain about the product. Especially of your shilling out hard earned money for a promotion's pay per views. Luckily I only bought SummerSlam which was a real fun pay per view from WWE. And I think I also have the right to say Bound For Glory sucked dick. Of course someone who didn't shill 40 dollars (Maybe even watched it for free on YouTube ) might look back on my thoughts and say "Well it was a mediocre pay per view. It didn't suck donkey balls."

And like Chilly said this ins't at all exclusive to pro wrestling fans.

I think Razor's post is fueled by wrestling fans taking over The Royal Rumble and RAW.

I'm not saying you can't complain. I explained this in my response to Mink. The purpose of this thread was to try and enlighten people. You may think that your current product sucks horse cock, but when you look back at a product you liked, there were tons of people saying that sucked horse cock too. People love to say that the Attitude Era was the best ever, then they go to a WWE show and boo everyone and talk shit, and say Cena sucks, and ruin it for the kids of that generation. How fair would it be for people to have done that to us during our eras? The internet ruined wrestling. People have ALWAYS bitched, this is just the first time that internet bitching has spread to actual wrestling.

I don't see why it matters what my post was "fueled by", I've been arguing this for a long time and Saintpat pointed this out in his STP lounge so I just looked into it more.

Chilly wrote:

Everyone bitches about something or worships it like nothing else no matter what it is, when it was or by how many.

I couldn't give two fucks what the next person thinks about it. I like what I like and I hate what I hate. That doesn't make me an expert or a noob. It makes me human. Each to their own.

I love this and I agree with it. Although, if this were true, I could like WWE and hate indy wrestling and think it's shit without half the forum getting all pissy on me.

Razor wrote:

I wasn't referring specifically to indy fanboys, idiot. Once again, you miss the entire point of it. I was stating that the stereotypical "IWC" fan is an indy fanboy. I'm merely stating WHO I am referring to, because last time I mentioned the "IWC" I got a bitch thread made about me arguing that "the IWC should stop arguing itself, and we're all part of the IWC!" I don't care if it's indy fanboys, WWE fanboys, I'm referring to the STEREOTYPICAL IWC FAN. Which nowadays is generally an indy fanboy that worships Daniel Bryan. That isn't even remotely what this thread is about, so fuck outta here with that. This is referring to the bitching that the stereotypical IWC fan does, I don't care how you wanna label them, it should be evident which group I am referring to.

That cant be farther from the truth.

IWC are just as big if not bigger of sheep than the sheep that they rally against, who happen to like different things. That's the irony of it all.

The IWC just feels entitled because they believe they are smart. Whereas the casual isn't. It doesn't change the aforementioned fact though. Being smart and "hip" is to be keen and free thinking, on the curve. Now granted a casual is no where close to that, they more than often, don't claim to be.

There is a lot of "smart" fans though who are keen and free thinking, they're able to enjoy things based on the merit of their own opinion and conclusions, regardless where that falls closer to; casual or smark. Obvious some OF THOSE type post here: Chilly, Razor, etc..

I've always tried to enjoy the product. I just watch it, if I like it, I like it. If I don't, I don't. I've always hated the Marks vs. Smarks bullshit. I'm a cena fan, but I'm also a Daniel Bryan fan and used to watch ROH. Everybody has their opinion, and WWE is going to try and cater to their biggest demographic. They are a business after all.

the whole "WWE must appeal to everyone" thing is a load of bs.

Razor wrote:

MooseNugget wrote:

I don't know why we can't complain about the product. Especially of your shilling out hard earned money for a promotion's pay per views. Luckily I only bought SummerSlam which was a real fun pay per view from WWE. And I think I also have the right to say Bound For Glory sucked dick. Of course someone who didn't shill 40 dollars (Maybe even watched it for free on YouTube ) might look back on my thoughts and say "Well it was a mediocre pay per view. It didn't suck donkey balls."

I'm not saying you can't complain. I explained this in my response to Mink. The purpose of this thread was to try and enlighten people. You may think that your current product sucks horse cock, but when you look back at a product you liked, there were tons of people saying that sucked horse cock too. People love to say that the Attitude Era was the best ever, then they go to a WWE show and boo everyone and talk shit, and say Cena sucks, and ruin it for the kids of that generation. How fair would it be for people to have done that to us during our eras? The internet ruined wrestling. People have ALWAYS bitched, this is just the first time that internet bitching has spread to actual wrestling.

Once again I'm going to say that the internet didn't create this. Watch Ron Garvin vs. Ric Flair from Starcade 1987. Even though Flair is the heel the crowd is behind him Why? Because people hated that Ron Garvin was NWA World Heavyweight Champion.

Watch WCW's 1991 Great American Bash (Well maybe just the main event. That was a real shit event ). The crowd was chanting "We want Flair!" all night long. That wasn't created by the internet.

And again Lex Luger became a victim of this when he won The Royal Rumble along with Bret Hart.

You can't say that Ron Garvin or Lex Luger were the victims of The Evil IWC. No WCW and WWE made piss poor business decisions and the crowds reacted. Things won't change unless somebody sends WWE a message that they don't like what they're doing. Maybe they can just stop running that town. If that's what they need to do than whatever. It's their money. Or maybe WWE will do something differently to make these people happy.

In anything, the people who are angry are going to be the loudest. People who like the product have no reason to say anything, except those annoying few who like to gush or defend. It's the same in wrestling, movies, television, politics, whatever. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

Reading posts on a forum is never a good gauge of the general consensus, especially now. It was true back then, too, that the only people going to message boards were the ones looking to complain. A better way to tell how the majority of fans felt would be to watch PPV reactions. Live audiences or more organic, for better or for worse, and should always be the measuring stick for a general consensus of opinion.

That's what makes the Royal Rumble and subsequent Raws so troubling to me. It's not unusual to see fans complaining on the internet, we do it every day of the week and have for decades. What is unusual is for a crowd to be completely disinterested in not one, but two main event matches on the same card. It may not be everyone's opinion, but it damn sure seems to be the majority opinion.

That being said, I do find the old discussions interesting. I actually agree with about 75% of them, though I've always said the Attitude Era was overrated. It was a good period for business, but creatively was a mess half the time, and tended to focus on the wrong things.

LMAO at people not liking Jericho, btw.

Nearphotison wrote:

That being said, I do find the old discussions interesting. I actually agree with about 75% of them, though I've always said the Attitude Era was overrated. It was a good period for business, but creatively was a mess half the time, and tended to focus on the wrong things.

  

Razor... GREAT job!!!

It boils down to nosalgia to some degree.

When I was (X) years old, wrestling, for the most part, was really enjoyable.

The older you get, things become easier to predict be ause you are like a batter in baseball: you have seen the pitcher's best pitch enough times (and worst) to know what they are capable of.

Chilly wrote:

Everyone bitches about something or worships it like nothing else no matter what it is, when it was or by how many.

I couldn't give two fucks what the next person thinks about it. I like what I like and I hate what I hate. That doesn't make me an expert or a noob. It makes me human. Each to their own.

NCD wrote:

Razor... GREAT job!!!

It boils down to nosalgia to some degree.

When I was (X) years old, wrestling, for the most part, was really enjoyable.

The older you get, things become easier to predict be ause you are like a batter in baseball: you have seen the pitcher's best pitch enough times (and worst) to know what they are capable of.

Thanks.

and I agree.

Nearphotision wrote:

That's what makes the Royal Rumble and subsequent Raws so troubling to me. It's not unusual to see fans complaining on the internet, we do it every day of the week and have for decades. What is unusual is for a crowd to be completely disinterested in not one, but two main event matches on the same card. It may not be everyone's opinion, but it damn sure seems to be the majority opinion.

That's because almost everyone in the crowd is on the internet nowadays.
Guarantee you if the internet was as accessible during the AE, you'd be getting the same reactions for Rock/Austin.

Razor wrote:

Chilly wrote:

Everyone bitches about something or worships it like nothing else no matter what it is, when it was or by how many.

I couldn't give two fucks what the next person thinks about it. I like what I like and I hate what I hate. That doesn't make me an expert or a noob. It makes me human. Each to their own.

I love this and I agree with it. Although, if this were true, I could like WWE and hate indy wrestling and think it's shit without half the forum getting all pissy on me.

For me though, I started to dislike the WWE a while before I went on the internet forums and dirtsheet news sites about it, so I wasn't influenced by the IWC etc. I've watched full episodes of Raw and Smackdown from the past time period that I enjoy (but didn't get to fully watch back then) and I still prefer it to today's product. I have pretty much every Attitude Era PPV there is on DVD and if I could buy full episode of Raw from back then on DVD, I would also. It's just what I enjoy personally, but if someone else doesn't like it and prefers the current product, then that's A-OK with me. Just don't be a tit about it. With that said, I'm naive or thick enough to believe the era was utterly perfect. It sure as hell wasn't lol.

People can like and dislike whatever they wish, as long as it's backed up with an actual reason. I've seen too much hate on either WWE, TNA and/or RoH/Indy wrestling without any logic behind it. If you give a reason, even if it can appear to be somewhat silly, then it's fine. It's the moronic tools of "LOLTNASUCKSKBYE!" and "FUCKCENA!" that drive me nuts. Just go away. I've grown tired of people declaring what is the best and what is shit. Annoys me. If you have no logical reasoning behind what your say and declare, your opinion is utterly worthless and invalid...and that applies to life in general, not just wrestling.

Also, by that same token, just because I don't watch RoH it doesn't mean I want the place to shut down. Hate those kind of fans

^^ @ everything lol.

I personally enjoy the current product of WWE. We see great matches every single week, you see rising stars every single week (all the shit Roman Reign's has been doing, Dean is one of the longest US champs and I feel like they just might make him get near the record, Big E Langston is definitely a future star, Daniel Bryan won against Orton cleanly last week even after Kane interfered, etc.) and every week we see overall good programming, people just love to complain about the small stuff cause they'd be bored if they didn't.

As for disliking TNA/RoH, I don't watch either so I honestly can't have a legit opinion. From what I've heard, EC3 is cool, I've always loved Austin Aries, and Sting/Kurt are a given. I was never really a fan of Styles, thought he was overrated, but at the same time, he helped TNA get to where it is today and shouldn't have been fired. I don't pay any attention whatsoever to RoH.

Even so, I would legit hate for either to go down. Without competition, WWE would surely become insanely lazy, as they'd feel unthreatened.

Quote :

Nearphotision wrote:

That's what makes the Royal Rumble and subsequent Raws so troubling to me. It's not unusual to see fans complaining on the internet, we do it every day of the week and have for decades. What is unusual is for a crowd to be completely disinterested in not one, but two main event matches on the same card. It may not be everyone's opinion, but it damn sure seems to be the majority opinion.

That's because almost everyone in the crowd is on the internet nowadays.
Guarantee you if the internet was as accessible during the AE, you'd be getting the same reactions for Rock/Austin.

Unfortunately, there's no way to prove or disprove that. However, I disagree. Part of having everyone on the internet means there's also more variety to the opinions being shared there. I realize you likely don't think that's the case, but the mere fact that there are so many arguments on this site is evidence of it. It's not like the internet sits around jerking off one opinion indefinitely, most of the people online already have their opinions and rarely change them.