http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/1s70jn/every_one_of_john_cenas_clean_ppv_losses_since_he/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Quote :

Just to be clear we aren't considering MITB cash-ins as clean because they are designed to attack a superstar while they're weak, and RVD at ONS '06 had that screwiness with Edge and Heyman making the count (It's not strictly speaking a clean loss, but it still put over RVD a lot). vs Batista at Elimination Chamber 2010 is also not counted for this reason.

vs Randy Orton and Triple H at Wrestlemania 24 (Triple H hit the Pedigree on Cena, but Orton punted HHH and made the pin to retain the title)

vs Randy Orton and Triple H and JBL at Backlash 2008 (Cena made JBL tap with the STF, Orton immediately punted him and made the pin, he would later lose the match and the title to Triple H)

vs Triple H at Night of Champions 2008 (Triple H reversed the AA into a Pedigree for the clean win and the WWE title)

vs JBL at Great American Bash 2008 (This was a Parking Lot Brawl. Though Cena dominated most of the match, JBL threw him into the windshield of a car next to the stage and pinned him.)

vs Batista at Summerslam 2008 (Cena got to kick out of a Batista Bomb but still lost clean)

vs Kane, Mike Knox, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho and Edge at No Way Out 2009 (Kane and Knox had already been eliminated. Cena came out last and immediately started beating everyone up but as he had Edge up on his shoulders he took a Codebreaker, followed by a 619, followed by a Spear and got pinned by Edge, who would win the match and the World title)

vs Randy Orton at Hell in a Cell 2009 (Randy Orton tied Cena up in the ropes and beat him up, then punted the dick off of him for the win)

vs Sheamus at TLC 2009 (This was a tables match. Cena lost when Sheamus pushed him off the top turnbuckle through a table)

vs CM Punk at Money in the Bank 2011 (There has been some debate as to whether or not this was actually a clean loss. I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone here, but Cena had Punk in the STF in the middle of the ring when Vince and Laurinaitis started signaling for the bell. Cena, being Cena, hopped out of the ring and knocked Big Johnny right the fuck out, saying "Not like that" to Vince. He got back in the ring and turned into a GTS and Punk won. I consider it clean, since it's not like Punk couldn't have gotten out of the STF and gotten the win.)

vs The Rock at Wrestlemania 28 (Cena lost after he foolishly attempted a People's Elbow and got Rock Bottomed for his cheekiness)

vs CM Punk and Ryback at Survivor Series 2012 (Ryback got the Shellshock on Cena but the Shield came in and beat his ass, leaving the devious CM Punk to steal the pin. Since they never touched Cena he pretty much lost clean. Lot of time passed between the Shellshock and the pin too. Some Triple H vs Booker T shit going on right there. DAE Cena got buried?)

vs Daniel Bryan at Summerslam 2013 (Lot of back and forth but Cena took a knee to the damn face and Bryan won clean. Also I'm pretty sure something happened after this but it's probably no big deal)

That's all of them. Every other PPV match had either Cena winning, Cena losing with shenanigans, MITB cash-ins, that one time Vince gave Batista a title shot after an Elimination Chamber, or multi-man matches where someone else got pinned.

I'm not sure how many times he's put someone over on Raw but I know there are a few notable ones. Shawn Michaels in 2007 and Randy Orton in 2010, and the Shield earlier this year come to mind.

Honestly, it's rare for your top babyface to lose clean against other people because the booker either wants him to still look strong by losing via BS reasons and/or it continues a storyline for another month. I would presume it didn't happen very often to either Rock or Austin either.

There's only around 10 there, that's not alot since his first title

SexyD32 wrote:

Honestly, it's rare for your top babyface to lose clean against other people because the booker either wants him to still look strong by losing via BS reasons and/or it continues a storyline for another month. I would presume it didn't happen very often to either Rock or Austin either.

I'd like to see a comparison, actually. Include Hogan in that as well, because I'd bet he had just as few clean losses.

If Rock and Austin lost clean, I'd be willing to bet that most of the time it was to each other.

I can only remember Austin losing clean to Rock at WM 19 tbh

Yeah, these stats aren't really surprising.

Agreed Chilly, in fact I don't remember Austin ever losing cleanly unless it was to another major face, and very rarely.

Stone Cold Steve Austin won his first WWF Championship at Wrestlemania XIV in 1998.

1. Summerslam 1999 - lost clean to Mankind
2. No Way Out 2001 - lost clean to Triple H
3. Wrestlemania XIX - lost clean to The Rock

That's three clean PPV losses in five years.

The Rock won his first WWF Championship at Survivor Series in 1998.

1. Armageddon 2000 - lost clean to Kurt Angle (took the pin in that six man HIAC)
2. Summerslam 2002 - lost clean to Brock Lesnar (Heyman tried to get involved, but the report I'm reading says it was in the middle of the match, and Rock got him before he got The Rock)
3. Backlash 2003 - lost clean to Goldberg
4. Wrestlemania XXIX - lost clean to John Cena

So that's four clean losses in about fifteen years, although we have to remember Rock wasn't there for a good while. Maybe a fairer way to compare is this:

John Cena: 12 clean losses in 100 PPV matches (including the one where he first one the title). That means he's lost 12% of his PPV matches clean.

Steve Austin: 3 clean losses in 48 PPV matches. That means he's lost 6.25% of his PPV matches clean.

The Rock: 4 clean losses in 53 PPV matches. That means he's lost 7.54% of his PPV matches clean.

So therefore, no one is ever allowed to complain about Cena not putting people over again.

Thanks Mink.
and it makes sense. If your biggest face is constantly losing cleanly, it makes him look like shit.

^Well I really don't think Dreamer was the face of ECW. Yeah he was called the heart and soul of ECW when he was in WWECW, but that is because he was truly the only real ECW left. The real Face of ECW was either Sabu, Taz, or The Sandman.

Yeah, I second Sandman.

Well you gotta remember Dreamer never left for WCW and WWF as well. Don't know if anyone offered him anything but he didn't leave

Yeah, but loyalty doesn't always mean a push.

Actually he wasn't at all happy about winning The ECW World Championship. But they needed someone to beat Taz for it.

*makes him look like shit*
*uses the biggest example of a jobber*

This guy doesn't know anything about ECW  

I know, he was "the heart and soul of ECW" and yet when he was losing week after week to Morrison and Miz in WWECW, that fact was 100% irrelevant because he was a jobber. Had he won a lot more, I guarantee you he'd be a lot more relevant.

 

We're talking about the original ECW. What happened in WWE's third brand is irrelevant.

I'm talking about WWE, so I could care less about that. Wrestling is completely different now and it was completely different in the original ECW.
Tommy Dreamer lost every single week, I don't care how "big he was" he became a complete jobber and completely irrelevant. If he had won a lot more, I can guarantee you he'd be taken a lot more seriously.

and I'm talking about WWE, so I don't care.
Original ECW was a completely different style of wrestling. In mainstream professional wrestling where 90% of your fans are little kids that don't know what kayfabe is, their favorite wrestler losing cleanly every single week gets annoying and they eventually just stop liking them. Plus, you can't compare Tommy Dreamer with HALF of John Cena or Stone Cold. Cool, he did a lot for the business, and yet Austin/Cena/Hogan/Rock are larger than he will EVER be. Honestly, using Tommy Dreamer as an example only proved my point.

Somebody got out of the wrong side of bed yesterday

And the whole point was about "top stars". Even Dreamer (whether ECW was considered on WWE/WCW's level or not is irrelevant) wasn't the guy in ECW, not that I know much of the company. He was just loved by their fans. I would presume other faces were further up the pecking order than Dreamer. Plus Dreamer was the type of guy that only fitted well in one promotion and that was ECW, where he fit in better. DDP was sort of the same. Once he moved to WWE they taken a large shit all over him and he certainly wasn't a jobber, but a legit star. Oh and I am sure it was fairly impossible to lose clean in ECW anyway with their damn rules

The whole point was a company's very top babyface will rarely lose clean. Faces below that are more likely to because they don't need to be as protected. If a very top face loses clean, it's usually rather awkward on the next show because it's kind of "what now? THE guy just lost..." because evil/bad guys are not meant to win in this World in the long run.

That wasn't my argument at all though. And if I sounded snippy, it's because TJ did as well.

I realized I double posted, the forum was being weird yesterday.

My argument is that if the top face loses a ton, he becomes irrelevant. I don't care how you'd feel about Dreamer PERSONALLY, but NOW he is completely irrelevant. Maybe back then in old ECW he was a major player, but NOW (or at least, in his last run), he was completely irrelevant. He'd come out to face like Morrison or Miz and no one would give any sort of a crap. If Cena began losing cleanly time after time after time and then 20 years from now he's in whatever new company exists, and he's a complete nobody, you can say that he's a nobody because he lost a lot. If he continues the way he is now and 20 years from now he's still wrestling, he will still be very relevant. Tommy Dreamer was a complete jobber and using him just proved my point.