| | Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" | |
| Eeyen TeamMoose
Posts : 14180 Join date : 2013-07-19 Age : 31
| Subject: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:26 pm | |
| If you want to see all the data, it's in the spoiler at the bottom. Some interesting things that jumped out on me. 1. In 2016 Dean Ambrose main evented 80 house-shows, the most anyone has main evented since at least 2006 and possibly ever. 2. Randy Orton didn't main event a single house-show in 2016. 3. Randy Orton's feud with Sheamus in 2015 averaged 2750 people over four matches, the worst drawing feud in the company from 2006-2016 that did at least 4 matches... BUT Sheamus also had the #1 drawing feud in the company that year. So who's fault was it? 4. CM Punk really was "white-hot" in 2011. His program with The Miz was the second highest drawing feud in the last decade, and Punk had four of the top five drawing feuds in WWE that year. 5. In 2011, R-Truth had two of the three best drawing feuds in the company. He and Miz were neck-in-beck for top heel, and house-show attendance was on fire. 6. In 2012, Punk hadn't cooled off. His feud with Dolph Ziggler averaged 6100 in attendance over 20 matches, the second best drawing feud that year. 7. Dolph Ziggler had the two highest drawing feuds in the company in 2012. 8. Edge and Jeff Hardy were both AWFUL draws. Edge and Undertaker was one of the worst drawing main events from a fondly remembered feud ever. 9. As good as he is, AJ Styles is not a draw. 10. Odd AJ Styles opponent rankings? Rollins drew best (And the only good loop), then Roman, then Dean, and Cena was last. Ooof. Top draws in WWE from 2006-2016 according to the data:1. John Cena 2. CM Punk 3. Shawn Michaels 4. Triple H 5. Sheamus 6. Seth Rollins 7. The Undertaker 8. Roman Reigns 9. Dean Ambrose 10. Daniel Bryan 11. Ryback 12. Batista Guys that do good numbers with strong babyfaces, but can't be the top babyface.1. Dolph Ziggler 2. Randy Orton 3. Big Show 4. Kane 5. Alberto Del Rio Guys who do bad numbers period:1. Edge 2. Jeff Hardy 3. AJ Styles 4. Bray Wyatt - The whole post:
In 2008 his feud with Jeff Hardy averaged 4,143 over 7 shows. It was the third most common house-show main event. Programs with more than 5 singles matches that did better: Batista vs Edge (4286) Triple H vs Umaga (4833) Big Show vs Undertaker (5860) CM Punk vs JBL (4933) Jeff Hardy's only other meaningful opponent was Edge, and they did worse. In 2009, Randy Orton's top programs were with Triple H and John Cena. His feud with John Cena averaged 5142 over 21 matches and his feud with Triple H averaged 3950 over 4 matches. Programs with more than 5 singles matches that did better: Chris Jericho vs John Cena (8000) CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (4750) Big Show vs Undertaker (4000) Cena drew better with Chris Jericho, his only other singles feud. Triple H did 450 persons worse with Big Show, his only other singles feud. In 2010 Randy Orton only had one singles feud that had more than 5 main events, against Sheamus. It averaged 5840 people over six matches. Programs with more than 5 singles matches that did better: Sheamus vs John Cena (6322) In 2011, Randy Orton main evented in five significant singles programs. He averaged 3911 over 19 matches with Christian. He averaged 4200 over 4 matches with Miz. He averages 3496 over 7 matches with Mark Henry. He averaged 5500 over 6 matches with Alex Riley. He averaged 3983 over 7 matches with Sheamus. Programs with more than 5 singles matches that did better: CM Punk vs The Miz (6675) John Cena vs R-Truth (5973) CM Punk vs R-Truth (5820) CM Punk vs John Cena (5244) CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio (5129) John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio (4100) Christian vs Sheamus (3983) Edge vs Kane (3825) The Miz did better with Punk and Cena. Christian did better with Sheamus. Randy Orton was in four of the six worst drawing house-show main events. Randy Orton did not have a significant main event singles feud on house shows in 2012. In 2013 Randy Orton had the top feud in the company, drawing 5490 on average over 20 matches with Daniel Bryan. Only four programs had more than five singles match main events on the house shows. John Cena vs Ryback, Alberto Del Rio vs Big Show, and Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler. It was a weird year. In 2014 John Cena vs Randy Orton averaged 5954 over 27 matches. Randy Orton's other significant feud was against Roman Reigns, drawing 4214 over 7 matches. Programs with more than 5 singles matches that did better: John Cena vs Seth Rollins (6525) Bray Wyatt vs Dean Ambrose (5900) Bray Wyatt vs John Cena (5413) Kane vs John Cena (4970) Daniel Bryan vs Kane (4413) Reigns vs Orton was the worst drawing feud that did more than 5 main events. In 2015, Randy Orton only had one house-show program with more than five singles main events - a program with Seth Rollins that averaged 4863 over 9 matches. Programs with more than 5 singles matches that did better: Roman Reigns vs Sheamus (6656) John Cena vs Seth Rollins (5539) Daniel Bryan vs Kane (5657) John Cena vs Kevin Owens (4883) Randy Orton's feud with Sheamus, which was the reason I posted this, averaged 2750 in attendance over 4 main event singles matches and was so bad, they scrapped the feud. Sheamus, of course, had the top drawing feud in the company, and Randy's good opponent was better with Cena. In 2016 Randy Orton didn't main event a single house-show. You can go through these numbers at your leisure on Chris Harrington's website. http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com As far as I can tell the only feuds that have ever done worse than Orton/Sheamus with more than one main event to their credit were at the very end of the brand split era when Dolph Ziggler main evented shows against Matt Hardy and Kofi Kingston. In conclusion, Randy Orton is fine working with someone better than him, but he's not a draw. He is a good opponent for a draw and nothing else.
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| | | Go ills go Icon
Posts : 16995 Join date : 2013-07-23
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:32 pm | |
| John Cena #1.... already bullshit. |
| | | Gopher Love Bites
Posts : 9666 Join date : 2013-07-19 Age : 31 Location : Arlington, Texas
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:41 pm | |
| Of course John Cena is the #1 draw. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
Edge being a bad draw is really hard to believe, though. |
| | | Dragon Fx KingofSwing
Posts : 9018 Join date : 2013-07-23
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:18 pm | |
| It's also hard to believe Jeff Hardy being a bad draw when he was as popular as CM Punk at his peak. |
| | | MooseNugget TeamMoose
Posts : 23405 Join date : 2013-07-23 Age : 32 Location : Kotzebue, AK
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:45 pm | |
| - Drächen Fx wrote:
- It's also hard to believe Jeff Hardy being a bad draw when he was as popular as CM Punk at his peak.
Imagine how bad his numbers would be if they included his time in TNA. |
| | | Dragon Fx KingofSwing
Posts : 9018 Join date : 2013-07-23
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:53 pm | |
| Yeah, but I think that's more on TNA being bad than on Jeff |
| | | Eeyen TeamMoose
Posts : 14180 Join date : 2013-07-19 Age : 31
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:58 pm | |
| - All My Children wrote:
- John Cena #1.... already bullshit.
#1 by a big margin. Had they not tanked CM Punk I think he would have came close. - Giggity Gopher wrote:
- Of course John Cena is the #1 draw. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
Edge being a bad draw is really hard to believe, though. I know, it was the last thing I expected. I know Dave Meltzer has talked at length about how hard it was to sell tickets for shows labeled "Smackdown" but even versus other Smackdown main events the numbers were low. - Drächen Fx wrote:
- It's also hard to believe Jeff Hardy being a bad draw when he was as popular as CM Punk at his peak.
Edge vs Jeff Hardy in 2008 averaged 2540 over 5 matches. In 2009 they did it again and it jumped to 3750. The only Jeff Hardy feud that ever drew well was vs Punk, and Punk is on the list often enough to know who was the draw... - MooseNugget wrote:
- Drächen Fx wrote:
- It's also hard to believe Jeff Hardy being a bad draw when he was as popular as CM Punk at his peak.
Imagine how bad his numbers would be if they included his time in TNA. |
| | | Dragon Fx KingofSwing
Posts : 9018 Join date : 2013-07-23
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:07 pm | |
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| | | Eeyen TeamMoose
Posts : 14180 Join date : 2013-07-19 Age : 31
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:57 pm | |
| Well I know Dave Meltzer thinks Google trends or whatever it's called is the best way to measure it. Whatever the thing is that tracks total global impressions. I think Jeff Hardy was a big draw but it certainly didn't translate to tickets sold. I think he had more fans than Punk, but ultimately those people were happy to buy his sleeves and DVDs and watch him on TV. They did not come to watch him when he was pushed as a top babyface.
If you look at the numbers, it's impossible to deny. Punk was a better draw in terms of tickets sold even before 2011, but once you hit 2011 Punk's superiority is impossible to deny.
I think what he's saying is right and that it's also kind of misguided. Ultimately what his numbers prove is that Jeff Hardy is more recognizable main stream than CM Punk, which is hard to deny. Does that actually translate to revenue? I think TNA found out it really didn't. Kind of like how The Dudley Boyz were main stream famous but The Young Bucks, who aren't, could sell three times as many tickets in any venue in the country.
It really comes down to what you want to measure. Jeff Hardy was certainly more famous. That would be the word I use for it. He's more "main stream." If you want to know who the average guy walking down the street is more likely to know, that's definitely Jeff Hardy, and I think that's the only thing his number really proves.
In terms of actual revenue generated in the wrestling business, it's CM Punk. In terms of tickets sold, it's CM Punk in a landslide. |
| | | MooseNugget TeamMoose
Posts : 23405 Join date : 2013-07-23 Age : 32 Location : Kotzebue, AK
| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:09 pm | |
| Yeah as big Kitty is into Jeff Hardy and Dick is into Goldberg they didn't even drop money to see them. |
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| Subject: Re: Did some research for a post on Reddit, thoughts on who "draws" | |
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