RyBull wrote:

And Also the fact most people seem to jizz over him and believe he is the greatest thing to happen to wrestling.

Well he couldn't destroy wrestling without WWE's help. The two Vince's mixed ECW with crash TV and created The Attitude Era. Pro Wrestling was never bigger and of course they couldn't follow it up and everything declined.

TJ wrote:

Bull, making a thread saying he's overrated, and then agreeing over and over with people's reasons why he isn't overrated, trying to make it seem like you're defending your point the whole time.

This makes jack all sense.

You can praise a guy and say he overrated at the same time.

Penguin wrote:

RyBull wrote:

And Also the fact most people seem to jizz over him and believe he is the greatest thing to happen to wrestling.

Well he couldn't destroy wrestling without WWE's help. The two Vince's mixed ECW with crash TV and created The Attitude Era. Pro Wrestling was never bigger and of course they couldn't follow it up and everything declined.

You can still have good tv but wwe is in a bad habit being too safe.

Señor Drächen wrote:

Bull, do you think Vickie Guerrero > Heyman in WWE?

More like bobby the brain heenan & Jimmy Hart > Heyman

Penguin wrote:

The fact that he is one of the best managers on screen managers shouldn't even be a debate.

He's one of the best but he's not THE BEST.

Penguin wrote:

It's everything but that Ryback isn't all the great in the ring. Sure five minutes with a guy and he looks great. But when he tries to go 20 minutes you can see his flaws.

Really fuck in-ring work or at least what people seem to label it nowadays. You don't need to do a bunch of kicks and flips and 100 suplexs. He has had good matches with The Rhodes Brothers, Sheamus, Daniel Bryan, and if it wasn't for the fact his matches with him always end crappy CM Punk too.

So he had great matches with great workers. That's the short of defense Mr. Anderson gets as well.

You always go back to the moves thing. You know my favorite matches are old NWA World Title matches. If Ryback wrestled back then he still would have been a mid-carder. He wouldn't have been at the level of a Ric Flair, Harley Race, Jack Briscoe, The Funks, or Ricky Steamboat. He's closer to like Magnum TA. He cool for awhile but he wouldn't have made a great main eventer.

ok after looking at a lot that i said maybe I was wrong to say overrated, but he is over hyped by the fans

Penguin wrote:

So he had great matches with great workers. That's the short of defense Mr. Anderson gets as well.

You always go back to the moves thing. You know my favorite matches are old NWA World Title matches. If Ryback wrestled back then he still would have been a mid-carder. He wouldn't have been at the level of a Ric Flair, Harley Race, Jack Briscoe, The Funks, or Ricky Steamboat. He's closer to like Magnum TA. He cool for awhile but he wouldn't have made a great main eventer.

Look how TNA is booking Bobby Lashley. If WWE did the same with Ryback it would work. Having him just wreck shit and going through people like they are nothing and winning cleanly. Ryback could have been a badass monster champion.

Well one of the reasons for the hype I think is because pro wrestling is really dry when it comes to managers. Off the top of my head I can list: Heyman, Coulter, Martini and maybe MVP.

to be fair to TA a car wreck did fuck him over

Penguin wrote:

Well one of the reasons for the hype I think is because pro wrestling is really dry when it comes to managers. Off the top of my head I can list: Heyman, Coulter, Martini and maybe MVP.

true

RyBull wrote:

Penguin wrote:

So he had great matches with great workers. That's the short of defense Mr. Anderson gets as well.

You always go back to the moves thing. You know my favorite matches are old NWA World Title matches. If Ryback wrestled back then he still would have been a mid-carder. He wouldn't have been at the level of a Ric Flair, Harley Race, Jack Briscoe, The Funks, or Ricky Steamboat. He's closer to like Magnum TA. He cool for awhile but he wouldn't have made a great main eventer.

Look how TNA is booking Bobby Lashley. If WWE did the same with Ryback it would work. Having him just wreck shit and going through people like they are nothing and winning cleanly. Ryback could have been a badass monster champion.

I think you and I agreed WWE fucked up when they turned him heel and had him feud with Cena.

I said before WWE should have taken a chance with him and had him beat Punk for the title at WrestleMania. Of course instead of thinking of the future instead we got The Rock vs. John Cena for the title. And Ryback ended up having a match with Mark Henry... which he ended up losing.

Penguin wrote:

RyBull wrote:

Penguin wrote:

So he had great matches with great workers. That's the short of defense Mr. Anderson gets as well.

You always go back to the moves thing. You know my favorite matches are old NWA World Title matches. If Ryback wrestled back then he still would have been a mid-carder. He wouldn't have been at the level of a Ric Flair, Harley Race, Jack Briscoe, The Funks, or Ricky Steamboat. He's closer to like Magnum TA. He cool for awhile but he wouldn't have made a great main eventer.

Look how TNA is booking Bobby Lashley. If WWE did the same with Ryback it would work. Having him just wreck shit and going through people like they are nothing and winning cleanly. Ryback could have been a badass monster champion.

I think you and I agreed WWE fucked up when they turned him heel and had him feud with Cena.

I said before WWE should have taken a chance with him and had him beat Punk for the title at WrestleMania. Of course instead of thinking of the future instead we got The Rock vs. John Cena for the title. And Ryback ended up having a match with Mark Henry... which he ended up losing.

Oh fuck yeah they fucked him over.

Agree with that, they should have pulled the trigger.

When it came to WM, if anything it should have been him vs Big show for the world title and have Ryback win it after shell shocking big show. ANd just put him on a reign of terror, make him feel like a special attraction like character.

RyBull wrote:

to be fair to TA a car wreck did fuck him over

Yeah I thought he was good in the ring and his character was pretty cool for the '80s. If he really was going to win the belt I think he would have only held it a short time like Dusty, Kerry or Garvin did.

Penguin wrote:

RyBull wrote:

to be fair to TA a car wreck did fuck him over

Yeah I thought he was good in the ring and his character was pretty cool for the '80s. If he really was going to win the belt I think he would have only held it a short time like Dusty, Kerry or Garvin did.

True true. but Kerry held it for a short time because his dad wouldn't let him leave WCCW.

You can't just stick a manager with someone and expect it to work. That's like suggesting having him manage Heath Slater and expecting him to main event WrestleMania within a year as a result.

It's a total package. One is supposed to compliment the other.

RyBull wrote:

Penguin wrote:

Like Ian said you can't get a jobber over with a manager.

Of course not if they continue to be booked as a jobber and when they do win it's in a joke fashion. Heyman was meant to be a mouth piece for Axel. If WWE actually was doing things the smart way and giving Axel big wins and big feuds instead of having him get bitch smacked by triple h and being punk's bitch I think Axel would be a bigger star.

Then that doesnt make Heyman overrated as a manager. Everyone knows Axel should of been booked better (especially during the Punk thing) but he wasnt. Heyman cant control that.

RyBull wrote:

Penguin wrote:

It's everything but that Ryback isn't all the great in the ring. Sure five minutes with a guy and he looks great. But when he tries to go 20 minutes you can see his flaws.

Really fuck in-ring work or at least what people seem to label it nowadays. You don't need to do a bunch of kicks and flips and 100 suplexs. He has had good matches with The Rhodes Brothers, Sheamus, Daniel Bryan, and if it wasn't for the fact his matches with him always end crappy CM Punk too.

Dude, shut the fuck up with the moves thing. If that's going to be your only argument as to why people think so and so are a bad wrestler then dont even bother trying to argue.

I think Ryback has improved. He could work a 20 minute match and have it be OK as long as it's no-DQ/a brawl. The last year has really helped him bring his pace to where it needs to be.

Curtis Axel =

Curtis Axel was fucked in so very many ways.

1. Brought up in NXT as Michael McGillicutty. (Which Chrome wants to correct to "Illogicality")
2. Doesn't win NXT.
3. Tag Teams with "Husky Harris"
4. WWE rebrands him as a new fake name instead of using "Joe Hennig"
5. Heyman is the focal point of the pairing
6. Wins via count-outs and brags about it
7. They seem to be building toward a feud with Triple H, but he's more focused on something else.
8. Feud with Triple H goes nowhere.
9. Wins the IC title cheaply

... I could go on, but I'm getting bored. TL;DR Curtis Axel was never given a chance.

Dead wrote:

RyBull wrote:

Penguin wrote:

It's everything but that Ryback isn't all the great in the ring. Sure five minutes with a guy and he looks great. But when he tries to go 20 minutes you can see his flaws.

Really fuck in-ring work or at least what people seem to label it nowadays. You don't need to do a bunch of kicks and flips and 100 suplexs. He has had good matches with The Rhodes Brothers, Sheamus, Daniel Bryan, and if it wasn't for the fact his matches with him always end crappy CM Punk too.

Dude, shut the fuck up with the moves thing. If that's going to be your only argument as to why people think so and so are a bad wrestler then dont even bother trying to argue.

No you shut the fuck up. And fuck your out look on what a good wrestler should be.Not everyone has to wrestle the same, do the same 100 different moves,  and not sell a single fucking one of them. False finishes out the goddamn ass and everyone looking the fucking same skinny ass. When it should be different looks, sizes, styles in the ring and personalities

RyBull wrote:

Dead wrote:

RyBull wrote:

Penguin wrote:

It's everything but that Ryback isn't all the great in the ring. Sure five minutes with a guy and he looks great. But when he tries to go 20 minutes you can see his flaws.

Really fuck in-ring work or at least what people seem to label it nowadays. You don't need to do a bunch of kicks and flips and 100 suplexs. He has had good matches with The Rhodes Brothers, Sheamus, Daniel Bryan, and if it wasn't for the fact his matches with him always end crappy CM Punk too.

Dude, shut the fuck up with the moves thing. If that's going to be your only argument as to why people think so and so are a bad wrestler then dont even bother trying to argue.

No you shut the fuck up. And fuck your out look on what a good wrestler should be.Not everyone has to wrestle the same, do the same 100 different moves,  and not sell a single fucking one of them. False finishes out the goddamn ass and everyone looking the fucking same skinny ass. When it should be different looks, sizes, styles in the ring and personalities

Dead points out that Bull is using false starman logic, Bull replies by recycling the same fucking strawman argument.   

I don't really understand the point of this thread. Does anyone actually think putting Heyman on a guy is an immediate ticket to success? Heyman makes good television and gets a buzz about a guy, but if nothing else clicks then of course they'll fade to the lower mid-card.

I think Axel and Ryback have been doing good stuff lately. If they can stick together as a team, maybe get some promo spots or something down the line, both guys could grow from it and do more later on. The characters have been damaged by bad booking, but they can still have decent runs in the mid-card.

Cause that's all i fucking hear. People brag about some indy match, I go watch it and it's the stereotypical indy match that is over hyped as fuck. Especially in the American indy. There are good indy wrestlers, but half of them are nothing special expect for the fact they can do a couple cool moves that other people have been known to do as well. The good indy wrestlers go to WWE or TNA or better yet to Japan where they can really be showcased.